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Post by 83R23RK R0807 on Sept 2, 2005 12:32:17 GMT -5
If you guys want to read what is ACTUALLY going on down there, read this..... www.livejournal.com/users/interdictor/It is so unbelievable how the governtment is doing practically nothing - they wont even let people from outside come in to pick up survivors..... If you read about the cell phone call from a guy at the convention center, its pretty chilling...
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Post by 83R23RK R0807 on Sept 2, 2005 12:42:50 GMT -5
Well from the sound of it, (hopefully!!) the people at atleast the convension center are being aid/saved, finally.
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Post by [XL]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 13:01:00 GMT -5
Amazing sheit, just horribly amazing. Its like a fricken post-apocalyptic movie. I keep being reminded of this movie back in the 80s. It was about a nuclear war and was primarily set in Los Angeles. Everyone knew the nuke was coming and it was anarchy in the streets. Disturbing sheit. Very similar to what is being described now in NO. Edit: The movie is called "Miracle Mile".
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Post by [XL]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 13:37:11 GMT -5
OK, kinda late but a Paypal button was added to donate to the relief effort. Some of you have already donated and it will all be sent out today (I think thats what LZ said). Thanks again to all of you. If you can, money helps, but so do prayers.
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Post by armysyco on Sept 2, 2005 16:12:59 GMT -5
Holy hell, i found this lil audio clip thingy. It's funny as hell, but more importantly makes some very good points about this whole situation. Definitely recommend you listen to it, but use headphones or keep the volume down because the language is very extreme. www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/262703
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Post by [LZ]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 16:28:42 GMT -5
On CNN I heard a news report that some Virginia sheriffs were all geared up and on their way down to help, but were told not to come because there was no place to put them up, Even though the sheriffs noted they were self sufficient and had tents, etc to hole up their guys. I mean, wtf is going on? Given that this is an EMERGENCY SITUATION, shouldnt the federal emergency MANAGEMENT agency be managing things? I might be wrong, but my understanding is that in the event of disaster, FEMA comes in and basically takes control or at least coordinates with all the local and federal agencies. I hope after this is all resolved, this thing gets investigated. It just doesnt seem right.
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Post by [Midknight]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 19:36:10 GMT -5
On CNN I heard a news report that some Virginia sheriffs were all geared up and on their way down to help, but were told not to come because there was no place to put them up, Even though the sheriffs noted they were self sufficient and had tents, etc to hole up their guys. I mean, wtf is going on? Given that this is an EMERGENCY SITUATION, shouldn't the federal emergency MANAGEMENT agency be managing things? I might be wrong, but my understanding is that in the event of disaster, FEMA comes in and basically takes control or at least coordinates with all the local and federal agencies. I hope after this is all resolved, this thing gets investigated. It just doesn't seem right. Well speaking from an EMS stand point and regarding this as a mass casualty disaster. This is one big logistical nightmare. coordinating all of the supplies and manpower. Man power we are talking about thousands of people and most of them are not military. setting up mobile hospitals, security, supplies, vehicles, fuel, etc.... As you can see this is a big job to coordinate, all takes time. I know the assistance and help is so appreciated but if FEMA has enough supplies and man power to handle their plan, what they will do is see how it pans out. For us in Hawaii we(EMS) has truck loads of medical supplies that can only handle about 500 people for one incident. New Orleans is a mass casualty that involves tens of thousands of people. Not to mention a medical nightmare. Local agencies in New Orleans where not prepared to handle a incident of this magnitude. So, what I think is happening is that FEMA waited till all of the supplies and man power where in place and then executed the plan.
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Post by [Rapidfire]69ee™ on Sept 2, 2005 20:09:43 GMT -5
I am starting to see hurricane victims in my neighborhood. My neighbor Ricardo has family in New Orleans and they are all staying next door to me. I counted 8 cars or trucks in front of my home that have Louisiana tags. Its crazy around here with all these people in our used to be quiet neiborhood. The people that are from Louisana are very polite and great to talk to. I can't believe they would riot and shoot at helicopters. It goes to show that when your desperate you'll do anything to survive. On my drive to work today I seen people sleeping on lawns next to the highways. This is by far the worst natural disaster I.ve witnessed and being so close and actually talking to victims is so weird.
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Post by [LZ]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 20:10:49 GMT -5
Youre probably right Mid, thanks for the insight. I guess with all the other amazing feats that this nation of ours has been able to pull off, I thought evacuation of 20,000 people to a neighboring state would be a piece of cake.
I guess what it boils down to is no one expected or was prepared for an event of this proportion to occur.
And of course its not a one way street, if I was an emergency worker and getting shot at, I might just turn the truck around too.
I was a bit suprised to hear that international aid was also offered. That helped restore a little faith in humanity.
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Post by [LZ]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 20:15:57 GMT -5
The people that are from Louisana are very polite and great to talk to. I can't believe they would riot and shoot at helicopters. It goes to show that when your desperate you'll do anything to survive. I think its actually the minority (gang members and thugs) that are making it tough for the majority. I really cant imagine why you would shoot at the rescue force. To add insult to injury, based on what that blog stated, even some of the police have turned to crime. geez.
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Post by [Midknight]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 21:06:12 GMT -5
The people that are from Louisiana are very polite and great to talk to. I can't believe they would riot and shoot at helicopters. It goes to show that when your desperate you'll do anything to survive. I think its actually the minority (gang members and thugs) that are making it tough for the majority. I really cant imagine why you would shoot at the rescue force. To add insult to injury, based on what that blog stated, even some of the police have turned to crime. geez. Those thugs are hindering the rescue effort. So if anyone is to get mad, it should be directed at those "thugs". Because safety is a big priority for us rescue peeps. If someone is shooting at us then we are out of there. We will not go back until the scene is safe. I can understand people being desperate and wanting the help "NOW" but if you think about their emotional state they are are on "survival mode" and being rational is not there. Some people are at the stage where primal instinct it taking over. Things are getting out of hand out there in New Orleans. Now finally the national guard is on scene and supplies and people are getting the help that is needed. I think if FEMA just went in to New Orleans on the first or second day it would of been unorganized and would of really been a embarrassment to the US govt. Just my .02 cents.....
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Post by [Tongan]69er™ on Sept 2, 2005 23:57:52 GMT -5
I just watched the news on the victims of the Hurricane and it breaks my heart. The scary part to me is that in my mind that could easily be our island if we got hit by a storm like that and were as desperate as those people. I'm gonna knock on some wood and hope that that doesn't happen to Hawaii.
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Post by [Red_Voodoo]69er™ on Sept 3, 2005 0:17:22 GMT -5
My only beef with the whole scenario are the fukin idiots who are taking pop shots with rifles and pistols at the brave people trying to save lives. These are the folks that are helping to make the rescue efforts a nightmare. I'd be more than willing to do my job to rescue helpless souls until I'm shot at. Sorry. End of mission for me, especially if I'm unarmed.
There seems to be a lot of criticism towards the President, which I can't quite comprehend. As Midknight mentioned, the whole rescue effort is not something that's going to happen overnight. Dang, people... this city is home of over 400,000 people. I'm guessing that New Orleans is about the size of the greater Sacramento area. If 80% of Sacramento flooded, the catastrophe would be just as bad.
There is no way you're going to rescue tens of thousands of people out of an area that is crawling with lawlessness and disease in a weeks time. Thousands will die of dehydration or lack of medicine. There is no way around it. Throw in the equation of suicidal armed citizens without any sense, and your going to add days to the effort.
I see people commenting that Bush had no hesitation to send troops to Iraq to overthrow a sinister dictatorship, but he can't seem to get any troops to help with the disaster relief. Sigh... there are already 50,000 National Guardsmen from all around the country, plus hundreds of active duty personnel involved, making this the largest domestic deployment of military force ever. In 3-4 frickin' days! To me, that's an amazing mobilization of troops.
Our Government is doing what they can as far as I can see. Heck... FEMA has been warning the city for decades that their levee and pump systems were inadaquate for a storm like this. Obviously, nobody thought too seriously of the problem.
I mentioned to my wife on last Sunday morning that by the middle of this week, New Orleans would not exist. I was practically correct. Quite simply, the system the local government had in place was haphazard at best. People inside and out had to know that it was only a matter of time. Why so many didn't take the threats seriously, I'll never know.
I also see that some of the victims are blaming the government for the lack of effort that was made to evacuate the people who couldn't afford to go anywhere. Whatever. The few days proceeding the storm, I saw that all that could be done (within reason) was done. Shuttles were provided by the city bus system to the Superdome for those who couldn't get out of the city. Granted, throwing several thousand people into a building to ride 145 mile winds out was not the smartest of ideas, but it worked (until the levees broke). It was a last resort thing to do at the time.
Remember that a good percentage of the city was evacuated. The people got up and got the fuk out like they were told. I sympathize for the not so fortunate, but to evacuate a whole metropolitan area in 48 to 60 hours is impossible. The infrastructure was taxed to its fullest. There were going to be victims.
Now I'm hearing about the race issue. Ok. The South never fully healed from the scars of the segregation. So I expect a little resentment. But with arseholes such as that clown Kayne West to go off on a tangent and make a race issue out of this disaster has got to be the dumbest thing I've heard on TV this decade. He just doesn't get it. He also commented on how the blacks are looking to loot, and the whites are looking to eat, and how American media is showing this to the rest of the country. Um, sorry jackass... New Orleans is almost 70% African-American. The odds are that you are going to see more blacks than whites on television. Do the math, fukface. Maybe I ought to write the FCC to tell them how offended I was by that racist statement.
To wrap this up, I can understand that the citizens that are effected by this are in an outrage. They are in what has got to be the closest thing to Hell on Earth. It has got to do quite a bit of damage to your normal thinking patterns. Add extreme hunger, severe dehydration and scenes of death, rape and mayhem, and you're going to lose it. I'm not blaming these people at all (even though I am sooo perplexed why a few individuals are aiming to harm the very Saints that are marching into their city to save their asses by firing bullets at them).
America as a nation is not grasping the situation at hand very well. Like 9-11, they are wondering how our lovely country can be affected by such Third World Hot Spot attrocities. Guess what? The wealthiest of all nations is made up of humans like everywhere else. You put people in a critical situation, and their mammal (animal) instincts will prevail. There is nothing more than anybody can do to speed up the process. I'm sure that if it could be done by now, it would have happened. I don't think that the government is sitting around with their thumb up their behind like many consider. It's a big job, and it's going to take a long time. A lot longer than the human body can exist without clean water (or maybe even food for that matter).
Don't blame the deaths on the Bush Administration. Blame it on Mother Nature. The events that have unfolded were inevitable considering the scenario. Now the innocent must pay the Piper for this serious flaw.
[Stepping down from my Soapbox)...
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Post by [Midknight]69er™ on Sept 3, 2005 0:52:17 GMT -5
Well done there Red. Nuf said...............
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Post by [LZ]69er™ on Sept 3, 2005 4:18:31 GMT -5
Well said Red.
Wow. 400,000 people. I didnt realize the population was that big. My understanding is that there were less then 50,000 people that needed to be rescued/evacuated, but that was after the hurricane had passed. Though this is still no small number by any means.
I agree that planning and implementation takes time, but I still feel that things could have been handled better IMHO. But hind sight is 20/20.
I guess the part that bothers me the most is that people were instructed to head to the astrodome or whatever the sports arena is called, but supplies were never delivered or delayed. I would think at the very least water and perhaps MREs could have been air dropped to the site. My understanding is that you can go weeks without food but only 3 days without water (correct me if Im wrong here Mid). Of course more than likely, there would likely have been a mob (with probable lost of life) without a distribution plan in place. I guess its a rock and hard-place situation.
Of course this opinion is based soley on the media and some of it is questionable at best.
And of course the ever important information factor may not have been there. I imagine the communication network in the area was crippled if not totally destroyed, so there was probably more guessing then knowing going on. Youd be surprised at what a lack of information can do to a population. Heck its even a military tactic, right up there with cutting off the water and food supply lines.
The issue of the levee kinda stumps me. There are a couple of solid facts that cannot be denied. 1. The city is below sea/lake level and between two bodies of water. 2. That whole area is suceptible to annual hurricanes and storms. Given these two simple facts alone, why on earth would you only build levees rated for a category 3 hurricane/storm? The COE explanation makes sense if the levee were an "option" so to speak. But the fact that the whole city would be lost (as has happened) if a levee broke, and that the city has a population as large as it does, wouldnt you erect the strongest levee possible?
Of course this leads to the question of whos responsibility is it to build/fund/maintain the levees. I would think in part it would be the federal government because where on earth would you place 400,000 displaced people in this day and age? I guess were going to find out. But eitherway, which do you think is cheaper? to build an expensive levee system or relocate and sustain an entire city population for some undetermined amount of time? Id probably pick the former.
I guess the main thing is that theyre finally getting some supplies and relief aid. And like Red said, humans arent infallible.
What few media people have bothered to mention is the clean up. Most people think its just a matter of draining out the water and letting things dry out. Given that the "canals" have essentially become a cesspool, after the water gets pumped out, its not going to be a pretty site. I think it will elevate the word "crap" to a whole new level.
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